8Sep/0930
The Pros and Cons of Hybrid Cars
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September 8th, 2009 - 12:24
honda and toyota also make them, but if you live in europe there are so many better options available to you. of the cars in europe, the top hybrids are only ranked about #45 for fuel economy, meaning there are 44 cars that surpass it in fuel economy. try a small diesel citroen, peugoet, toyota, ford, nissan or whatever. tehy'll all cost less and get better fuel economy than any hybrid.
September 8th, 2009 - 12:41
oh hes a orginal and nos a lot about bail outs back in the 70s when he fucked the province of new brunswick tax payers and saint john where the plant was located filled his pockets fucked off back to the states sure hes never been back
September 8th, 2009 - 12:44
i love you
September 8th, 2009 - 13:10
“Have I ever seen this car?” Yes, I see it everyday, it’s in my garage. When do I get royalties for use of my picture?
September 8th, 2009 - 13:39
I own a civic hybrid and the idea was to save money at the gas station but the tune ups, the replacement of electric batteries and you have to do oil changes on the dot….The service fee's are higher than all the money I saved at gas. The tires even have to be special ordered for my car. I probably have spent what I paid for it already in services fee's. Its rediculious. I am not doing it again. Give me a regular car anyday!
September 8th, 2009 - 13:43
Tesla Motors has a far better design aesthetic, which is definitely required to compete against today’s auto makers. If you look at the Visionary Vehicles website, is really feels completely amateur and poorly designed. The design on the car itself is laughably ugly. Bricklin’s heart is in the right place, but he should not be making calls on design decisions. Watch The Entrepreneur and you will see an example when he refuses to listen to his board about their logo design.
September 8th, 2009 - 14:59
u got a pointy head
September 8th, 2009 - 17:43
I can respect that some of the cons are legitimate. Hybrids are more expensive up front and the batteries are costly and difficult to dispose of. In addition, in my personal opinion, the most fuel efficient cars are not very attractive, are not as roomy as the non-hybrids and they just don't have a lot of power.
But the pros outweigh the cons by far!
I have owned a Toyota Prius for almost two years. I had planned to make up the difference in cost in 2 years but after careful tracking of the dollars saved, through gas mileage alone, I did it in just over 12 months. I am averaging 47.68 miles per gallon! (This includes about equal time in city and highway miles.)
In addition, the federal government and some states now are giving tax refunds to hybrid owners. I am no tree hugger or anything– I am just cheap, but if I can reduce my personal carbon emissions while saving a few bucks– even better.
As far as the other cons: I know the battery thing is an issue, but most of the car manufacturers warranty all of the hybrid components for five years. My understanding is that they are working on more efficient ways of disposing of them in that time.
The power thing was a concern, but I got used to it quickly and there is, really, much more room that it looks like. Honestly, I don't care what it looks like, either. I'm much too old to worry about that.
September 8th, 2009 - 17:59
well done! a brilliant mind!
September 9th, 2009 - 02:53
Insurance is about the same as a regular car.
Maintenance is about the same as a regular car – use your favorite mechanic or DIY.
Same gasoline as a regular car…
Depending on model, many hybrids are holding high resale values (mainly the fuel-economy hybrids as opposed to the power hybrids).
Pros:
* Depending on where you live, tax incentives (income tax credit for US federal, some states or Canadian provinces offer income tax credits/deductions or sales tax reductions),or single-occupant HOV lane privilages (CA, VA, FL, NY), or reduced tolls (NY) or free parking…
* better HP and acceleration than a comparable car
* better (lower) emissions than a comparable car
* better fuel economy than a comparable car
* own a neat techy car
* long warranty (depending on model, the hybrid battery or system is warrantied in the US a minimum of 8 years/80,000 miles, up to the AT-PZEV models in CA-emission states out to 10 years/150,000 miles, and it is NOT pro-rated but a full coverage.)
* you do not plug it in (charges off of the gasoline engine and recapurted kinetic energy while braking)
Cons:
* slightly higher initial purchase price
* own a neat techy car (should you need unscheduled maintenance, you're mainly stuck paying dealer rates)
* many ill-informed people stopping you and asking questions about your car, telling you untruths about your own car, or even telling you how stupid you were for buying it…
* you cannot plug it in
Here's the 2004 Toyota Prius Green Report (life cycle assessment):
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf
(you'll need to download the Japanese fonts for your PDF reader in order to read it, but the entire document is written in English.)
Over the lifespan of the Prius, when compared to a comparable mid-sized gasoline vehicle, the Prius comes out ahead in the life cycle assessment (LCA) for airborne emissions for CO2, NOx, SOx, HC, but actually does worse for PM (thanks to the material and vehicle production stages). Lifespan is given as 10 years use/100,000km. The CO2 break-even point for the 2004 Prius compared to this unnamed gasoline vehicle is given at 20,000km. (more CO2 is emitted during Prius production, but the Prius makes up for it over it's driven lifetime.)
Another neat thing is that the Prius is one of the first uses of Toyota's Eco-Plastic (plastic made from plants, as opposed to petroleum products). The battery is recycleable (NiMH), as is much of the car (steel and aluminum body, for example).
If you are looking for a US-produced hybrid:
The Ford Escape hybrid/Mercury Mariner hybrid are made in Kansas City, MO.
This fall the Toyota Camry hybrid is moving production to the Georgetown, KY plant.
I've never seen anyone do a cost-benefit analysis for a v4 vs v6 vs diesel engine, so why do one for a hybrid drivetrain? Most cost analysis articles neglect trade-in value which the Prius does very well in maintaining. (in some areas, used Prius are still selling for new prices for availability and rising gasoline prices!). Don't forget to include federal and any state tax incentives in your calculation (Consumer Reports forgot, and had to issue a retraction that hybrids are cheaper to own/operate than their gasoline cousins). Edmunds.com still doesn't take into account the true depreciation value (as seen by manually looking for a Prius trade-in value) when calculating their TCO, but they still say that hybrids will pay for themselves even when using their lower than actual trade-in amounts: http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/08/22/bc.autos.hybrids.reut/index.html
September 9th, 2009 - 05:05
Hey, it’s a dildo with ears!!! LMFAO!!!
September 9th, 2009 - 05:25
We cannot keep a used hybrid on the lot. They are more popular than the new ones, because they are a bit cheaper than a brand spanking new one. They depreciate about the same as a regular car, maybe holding its value a tad more. Soon as we get one in on trade or buy one at the auction, it usually sells within a week (average time to sell a car on the lot is about 45 days).
September 9th, 2009 - 06:46
1) consider it from an industry viewpoint. What power sources can they make soonest which will be deemed greenest and hopefully more saleable? There is less and less point building cars that aren't some percentage "green" with appeal.
2) consider maintenance. A key problem with many systems is that they lose efficiency (and therefore are less % green) if not properly serviced. Also, will green cars be too hard for owners to maintain them properly? Will badly tuned cars be a result of servicing costs?
3) You didn't list electric or electric hybrid.
Pure" electric simply transfers the problem, as an electric car may pollute less but needing more power stations to power the grid means the pollution load is trasnferred to the energy grid and power stations.
Electric cars with a small engine (gas, diesel, whatever) is the best option for my money. The idea is that the small engine does not provide motive power (that comes from batteries) BUT it recharges the batteries AS YOU DRIVE.
Current hybrid cars halve your fuel bills but cost much more and, even so, manufacturers cannot make enough of them.
Diesel is a stopgap that is better than gas but we really should have had, say, electric hybrid cars years ago. Diesel pollution is a serious issue in Europe.
Gas is a BAD option. It contains some lead and this lead affects all of us. It is a serious health and mental development risk for children in high-traffic areas esp when they breath traffic fumes at night.
We need cars with, preferably, NO carbon footprint. Therefore gas and diesel are simply not an option and we need to talk hybrid.
Other interesting hybrids are biodiesel, using a methanol derivative, or cars that really do burn old oil from fish-fry stores.
Visit websites for national motorist bodies and car makers for papers on this.
September 9th, 2009 - 09:53
The best and cheapest hybrid is the Toyota Prius. It costs about $22,000 before taxes and all that.
http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/model/overview.html;_ylt=ArAis5YB4Ta13uuOyqeoRaoEc78F;_ylv=3?modelId=5538
Pros: very reliable, low maintenance, comfortable, roomy, lots of cool features, great warranty, greenest car on the planet.
http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSL2733658020070727?feedType=RSS
Cons: higher initial cost.
baddogz's answer is not correct. Hybrid mileage estimates are just as accurate as non-hybrid mileage estimates. In fact, the 2008 EPA mileage estimate for the Prius is only about 46.5 mpg. Mine averages about 50 mpg.
In addition to gas savings, hybrids also have lower maintenance cost due to things like the regenerative braking system saving your brake pads. They will also have higher resale values as gas prices continue to rise.
Honda has not abandoned its hybrid research program. They decided not to research plug-in hybrids because they concluded that if you're going to build a plug-in hybrid, you might as well just make it a fully electric vehicle. They continue to make regular hybrids like the Civic.
Nissan never had their own hybrid technology. They're leasing Toyota's first generation hybrid system.
Hybrid batteries are under warranty for 8-10 years and are designed to last the lifetime of the car. Priuses used as taxis have over 200,000 miles on the original battery, and no Prius battery has been replaced due to old age. Even if you need a new battery after the warranty is up, you may only need individual cells replaced, which would only cost in the hundreds of dollars. Replacing the entire battery is rumored to cost around $3,000 at the moment.
Bottom line – the Prius is the best car currently available.
September 9th, 2009 - 10:04
CONE HEAD
September 9th, 2009 - 18:13
Malcolm Bricklin for president!
September 9th, 2009 - 20:09
Pros: Many cities allow you to ride solo in the carpool lane. A huge plus!
Status.
Helping environment. Less smelly exhaust.
Less wear and tear on the brakes, as the electric motor kicks in.
Save a lot on gas money.
There are some state and/or federal tax incentives: they are limited per manufacturer, so as Prius sells a certain amount of cars, less tax incentive is available, and it may be better with other manufacturers.
Some companies are even offering incentives if their employees drive hybrids. I think B of A is one of them.
Cons: Hard to find, though that is changing.
Expensive, though increasing demand will bring prices down.
September 9th, 2009 - 20:18
Part 2: Mr. Bricklin’s system (though he did not explicitly state it in the video) is known around the internet as an “HHO” system, generates hydrogen via electrolysis from water onboard a car, and feeding that hydrogen into the fuel-air stream heading for the engine, to increase mileage.
September 10th, 2009 - 04:22
cone head
September 10th, 2009 - 09:59
This is all very cool and I wish Bricklin luck. There are two big errors in the reporting here though: The system Mr Bricklin proposes has nothing to do with fuel cells, and also has nothing to do with plug in hybrids. Fuel cells use bottled, compressed hydrogen (and oxygen from air) to create electricity to drive an electric motor. A plug in hybrid is an electric car, whose batteries are charged using a plug, that also has a small gas motor that charges the car’s batteries when they run low.
September 10th, 2009 - 12:33
Pros- Saves you on gas a little bit. Good for City Driving
Cons- you have to drive upwards of 150,000 miles to actually get the money back that you supposedly "save." If you are driving a lot on the highway there is no point for the added cost of the hybrid option because it only is effective during stop and go city traffic.
Personally, I don't see the real point in the added cost. It takes a lot of driving to get the money back. If you are concerned with helping the environment, get yourself a cheap economy car, and only drive when it's necessary. Invest in a bike, and maybe even a comfy pair of running/walking shoes. When it's nice out in the summer, bike or walk to where you need to go instead of firing up the car to go 5 blocks down the street. Not only does this help the environment, it helps you keep in shape. So when you're going somewhere not very far, try walking or biking instead of driving. That way you can save some cash instead of buying an expensive hybrid car.
September 10th, 2009 - 16:10
Valerie, Let's visit about a specific car for a moment. The Toyota Camry Hybrid costs $5.000 more than a non battery Camry. Doing quick math it would take a minimum of 55,000 miles of driving under ideal conditions to pay for the added cost of the Hybrid. At the end of that period of time 4 – 6 years you get hit with battery replacement @$1,200.00. OUCH!
I realize people in the USA don't care about this but the folks in Canada who mine the nickel for the batteries create more pollution in producing replacements than people who drive a gasoline only Camry.
It's a nice gesture and thought but all things considered there is a better way.
Japanese Toyota's in taxi fleets run on LP gas. Its cheaper, with nearly zero pollution and LP is less expensive there than in the USA. Gasoline costs 20% more there. I can't answer what the general population uses for fuel in Japan but my info and car inspections a month ago proves these facts to be true.
September 10th, 2009 - 19:02
Depends on what you consider "worth it". If you get a regular model vehicle, only it's hybrid, it'll take years to recoup the extra $ you spent for the hybrid as opposed to the regular gasoline model.
To me, the only one worth buying is the Prius. It gets the best mileage, and it is only offered in Hybrid.
The bad part is you will be married to the dealership for life, as no independent mechanic will know how to fix it, hell, the dealers don't even know. The technology used was used in submarines is dated back to WWII Submarines, and in a few years will be obsolete.
They are slow and not that exciting to look at. They do have a big feel inside with great cargo room, and can you beat a Toyota?
I'd get one, but my vehicles are damn near paid off.
Personally, the best option is to wait for the new Bluetec diesels coming out from VW and Mercedes. At 45 mpg, no annoying battery failure, and some balls under the hood, it's the better option, even though diesel does cost more.
September 10th, 2009 - 21:01
thats so cool…..
i dont even like hybrid cars but out of all of them this one is the nicest one…!!!
September 10th, 2009 - 23:07
Ethanol as a fuel is Horrible. It only exists on the market as a government kickback. The process to manufacture it not only consumes a vast volume corn that could be used for, I dunno, food, about 2 football fields per gallon, the factory process actually creates more pollution making the ethanol than is saved on the road by using it. The government knows this. So do the oil companies that require so much of it to be in your gas. If you haven't noticed, there are usually stickers on the gas pumps describing how much ethanol is in the gas (usually 15%). This also makes your gas burn much faster, one of the main reasons why the efficiency of petrol burning engines has dramatically dropped over the last 10 years or so. Whatever you do, steer clear of ethanol. Go electric, diesel of bio-diesel
September 11th, 2009 - 03:59
I don’t really see how bringing products in from other countries to usurp dollars that would otherwise feed into the american manufacturing base is something that should be admired or celebrated. his latest move is to try to bring cars from a Chinese company called Chery into the U.S. market. i think a better move would be to fix our own manufacturing base and auto companies so that they can export cars and compete with the likes of Toyota, than to give all our business to China.
September 11th, 2009 - 05:09
Favorite hybrid car: Toyota Prius
Favorite hybrid truck: Ford Escape Hybrid
Both are best in fuel economy in the US market, low emissions, and are full hybrids (unlike the mild hybrids that GM makes). Best priced, too.
September 11th, 2009 - 05:56
Insurance is about the same as a regular car.
Maintenance is about the same as a regular car – use your favorite mechanic or DIY.
Same gasoline as a regular car…
Depending on model, many hybrids are holding high resale values (mainly the fuel-economy hybrids as opposed to the power hybrids).
Pros:
* Depending on where you live, tax incentives (income tax credit for US federal, some states or Canadian provinces offer income tax credits/deductions or sales tax reductions),or single-occupant HOV lane privilages (CA, VA, FL, NY), or reduced tolls (NY) or free parking…
* better HP and acceleration than a comparable car
* better (lower) emissions than a comparable car
* better fuel economy than a comparable car
* own a neat techy car
* long warranty (depending on model, the hybrid battery or system is warrantied in the US a minimum of 8 years/100,000 miles, up to the AT-PZEV models in CA-emission states out to 10 years/150,000 miles, and it is NOT pro-rated but a full coverage.)
* you do not plug it in
Cons:
* slightly higher initial purchase price
* own a neat techy car (should you need unscheduled maintenance, you're mainly stuck paying dealer rates)
* many ill-informed people stopping you and asking questions about your car, telling you untruths about your own car, or even telling you how stupid you were for buying it…
* you cannot plug it in
September 11th, 2009 - 08:24
malcolm fucked the tax payers of the province of new brunswick where the bricklin was made
September 11th, 2009 - 10:13
It used to… they now electrically limit it.